From: "P.J. Gladnick" Newsgroups: alt.history.what-if,talk.rumors Subject: July 4---Insurrection Day Date: 30 Jun 1997 00:15:45 GMT Organization: CyberGate, Inc. July 4, Insurrection Day, has been enthusiastically celebrated for over two centuries here in the United Colonies of America but we often lose sight of the true meaning of this holiday. Of course, it must be first understood that we are not actually celebrating the Insurrection of July 4, 1776, or what the rebel traitors dared to called the "Declaration of Independence," but rather the ultimate victory of the Crown over the dark forces of anarchy. Despite the assertion by a few misguided revisionist historians that the rebels of that era were some sort of revolutionary heroes, the true reason for the Insurrection, as we all know, was simple greed. The colonists of that time were more than happy to have the protection of the British troops against their enemies during the French and Indian War but when it came time to pay the bill for this defense, the trouble began. The Crown placed a tax of a mere three pennies per pound on tea brought into the colonies to help defray the war debt, yet despite this modest cost it caused howls of protest from colonial profiteers. Among those vehemently opposed to paying this absurdly low obligation was one John Hancock, the richest merchant in Boston and the first person to sign the notorious Declaration of Independence that illegally established the short-lived United States of America. This document, which was purportedly a solemn resolution, was in reality nothing more than a list of (very) petty grievances against King George III. To get an idea of how truly ridiculous these complaints were, one need only take a look at a few of them as set forth by that chronic complainer, Thomas Jefferson: "He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable and distant from the depository of their Public Records..." Well, too bad. Just because public officials might have felt slightly uncomfortable was no reason for open rebellion. Perhaps they expected the Crown to bear the expense of convening legislative bodies at every frontier crossroads that suited their whims at the moment? "He has erected a multitude of New Offices and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people..." The colonies were expanding in both population and area. If the King did not send more officials to help with its administration, he would have been labeled derelict in his duties by the whining Mr. Jefferson. "He has endeavored to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws of Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migration hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands." In other words, Jefferson was opposed to the King's wise policy of planned growth and land development. Better that than allowing the colonies to be flooded with foreigners whose drain on public services would surely have also been loudly protested by Jefferson. "He has excited domestic insurrection amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages, whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes, and conditions." What he called exciting domestic insurrection was actually the King's support for loyal colonists who bravely stood by the Crown despite severe reprisals by the rebels. Jefferson also vented his blatant anti-Indian prejudice but conveniently forgot to mention that the rebels themselves used Indian tribes against the loyalist forces. He further indicted the Crown for "quartering large bodies of armed troops among us." Didn't Jefferson have any sense of civic responsibility? Did he really expect the poor young soldiers to sleep out in the cold? Was it asking too much of the colonists for them to provide troops with minimal shelter? There are many other pet peeves listed in the Declaration of Independence, the triviality of which are beneath contempt. Yet, for all the imagined horrors committed by the Crown, it was nothing compared to the oppressive regime of the French King. However, this did not prevent the hypocritical rebels from seeking the active support for their insurrection from that tyrannical ruler. It seems they denounced the institution of the monarchy only when it suited their narrow purposes. Fortunately, with the help of such loyalist heroes as Benedict Arnold, the Insurrection was suppressed. Today, as we citizens of the United Colonies of America celebrate Insurrection Day with traditional parades and fireworks, we should remember to reflect on the reason for this holiday as we proudly sing "God Save the Queen." From: tomr@fred.net ( ) Newsgroups: alt.history.what-if,talk.rumors Subject: Re: July 4---Insurrection Day Followup-To: alt.history.what-if,talk.rumors Date: 30 Jun 1997 13:51:13 GMT Organization: FredNet - Frederick, Md. Lines: 27 Message-ID: <5p8dkh$cr2$6@news.fred.net> References: <01bc84ea$9f2a6260$8667e3c7@default> NNTP-Posting-Host: bigdog.fred.net X-Newsreader: TIN [UNIX 1.3 950824BETA PL0] Xref: news.ultranet.com alt.history.what-if:36175 talk.rumors:29284 Status: N P.J. Gladnick (pjglad@gate.net) wrote: : July 4, Insurrection Day, has been enthusiastically celebrated for over : two centuries here in the United Colonies of America but we often lose : sight of the true meaning of this holiday. Of course, it must be first : understood that we are not actually celebrating the Insurrection of July 4, : 1776, or what the rebel traitors dared to called the "Declaration of : Independence," but rather the ultimate victory of the Crown over the dark : forces of anarchy. : : Fortunately, with the help of such loyalist heroes as Benedict Arnold, the : Insurrection was suppressed. Today, as we citizens of the United Colonies : of America celebrate Insurrection Day with traditional parades and : fireworks, we should remember to reflect on the reason for this holiday as : we proudly sing "God Save the Queen." A bunch of us plan to head to Arnoldsburg for a re-release of ID4. I still get shivers when the Royal Governor's Mansion gets blown to bits. -- TomR@Fred.Net http://www.fred.net/tomr "We will not go quietly into the night! We will not back down from a fight! Rebels yesterday or rebels today... we *will* prevail again this Insurrection Day!" Royal Governor Sir Thomas J. Whitmore, (Lord Howe) "ID4" From: Vegard Valberg Newsgroups: alt.history.what-if Subject: Re: July 4---Insurrection Day Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 16:31:29 -0700 tomr@fred.net wrote: > A bunch of us plan to head to Arnoldsburg for a re-release of ID4. I still > get shivers when the Royal Governor's Mansion gets blown to bits. I really like that scene (specially where the Union Jack is swallowed by the flames as the mansion explode). Still ID4 is a bit unrealistic, I mean the the King of the UK and the Royal Governor personally flying fighters against the aliens? I know that they received training in the RAF together but still. Another really cool thing was that scene where they blew up Buckingham Palace and the Big Ben just flared up like a match. > snip-- - Vegard Valberg From: "Marcus L. Rowland" Newsgroups: alt.history.what-if Subject: Re: July 4---Insurrection Day Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 17:07:29 +0100 Organization: Forgotten Futures In article <33B841D1.3FA8@sn.no>, Vegard Valberg writes > Another really cool thing was that scene where they blew up >Buckingham Palace and the Big Ben just flared up like a match. ID4 is all well and good, but I still think that the battle scenes in Sir George Lucas's "The Rebellion Strikes Back" are much better. And if you remember, Sir George had the rightful king piloting an x-wing, so maybe that's where ID4 got the idea. -- Marcus L. Rowland http://www.ffutures.demon.co.uk/ "We are all victims of this slime. They... ...fill our mailboxes with gibberish that would get them indicted if people had time to press charges" [Hunter S. Thompson predicts junk e-mail, 1985 (from Generation of Swine)] From: Patrick Horning pjh@NOSPAM.srsc.com Newsgroups: alt.history.what-if Subject: Re: July 4---Insurrection Day Date: 30 Jun 1997 15:07:42 -0700 In article , "Marcus says... > >In article <33B841D1.3FA8@sn.no>, Vegard Valberg writes >> Another really cool thing was that scene where they blew up >>Buckingham Palace and the Big Ben just flared up like a match. > >ID4 is all well and good, but I still think that the battle scenes in >Sir George Lucas's "The Rebellion Strikes Back" are much better. And if >you remember, Sir George had the rightful king piloting an x-wing, so >maybe that's where ID4 got the idea. People, people, people... That's all fantasy. How about dealing with a real problem - we all know the realm has gone to hell since the players' strike ruined the Imperial pastime, cricket. That, and you'd think with the size of the colonies and the talent of the Premier League, together we could put together a contender for a World Cup football title (and I mean real football, not that pithy game played a few of the North American colonies). These failures are all Prime Minister Hillary Clinton's fault. ;-) Patrick J. Horning From: tomr@fred.net ( ) Newsgroups: alt.history.what-if Subject: Re: July 4---Insurrection Day Date: 2 Jul 1997 15:26:55 GMT Organization: FredNet - Frederick, Md. Scott Eiler (seiler@ma.ultranet.com) wrote: : In article <33B86BDB.89F@nbnet.nb.ca>, : Keith Morrison wrote: : : >Hmph. ID4 and TRSB are merely glorified rip-offs of that great show : >featuring the HMS Enterprise and Captain James Kirk, Earl of Iowa. : : Naaah, if I had to be stranded on a desert island with only one movie, I'd : have to pick "Monty Python's Insurrection of Brian". We Colonists may not have the same type of humor as the Mother Island, but I'm glad we have our fans. Best part at the end is Ackroyd and Belushi backed by the fife and drum band singing "Always Look on the Bright Side of Life". ROFLGO! : I particularly enjoy : the old women dressing up as Indians to go to a tea party in Boston and not : getting any tea. And the attempt by the suicide squad to "rescue" Brian : after Cornwallis brings him to justice at Yorktown is priceless. "Insurrection! Insurrection!" "I'm not an insurrectionist!" "If you're not an insurrectionist, why are you protesting?" "I'm not protesting!!!" - Chevy Chase, "IoB" -- TomR@Fred.Net http://www.fred.net/tomr "Boston is a great football town. Shame it doesn't have any midstrikers." Subject: Re: July 4---Insurrection Day From: scott_eiler@bdsi.com Date: 1997/07/03 Message-Id: <867930800.24356@dejanews.com> Newsgroups: alt.history.what-if In article <33BB050D.B6@sn.no>, Vegard Valberg wrote: > But the best part was were the "Continental Congress" sat down and > discussed how to throw out the "Red Coats", I mean you just got to see > it (you know where they decide on which Red Coats are to stay, and how to > conquer the world etc). And then when Brian gave the instruction to "Throw Out the Red Coats" to the army at Bunker Hill and they all started throwing red coats, it was hilarious. By the time the bulls of the local farmers saw the red and started charging, I couldn't stop laughing. -------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====----------------------- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet From: Vegard Valberg Newsgroups: alt.history.what-if Subject: Re: July 4---Insurrection Day Date: Thu, 03 Jul 1997 00:19:10 -0700 Patrick, Horning, pjh@NOSPAM.srsc.com wrote: > > > > Oh I really laughed at that one. > > But the best part was were the "Continental Congress" sat down and > >discussed how to throw out the "Red Coats", I mean you just got to see > >it (you know where they decide on which Red Coats are to stay, and how to > >conquer the world etc). > > > > I really love that discussion about what the English have brought us. You know > the scene... "Alright, besides protection from France, the pound sterling, the > Beatles, James Bond, cricket, a dignified royal family, pubs and Sir Alec > Guiness, what have the English done for us? NOTHING!" > > Another great scene was the discussion where they agreed that Ian could not be > Bulgarian because he was born in England, but he had the inalienable right to be > Bulgarian, and the English were denying Ian's right to be Bulgarian. > Or what about the Townsquare scene, where all those political rebell rousers were standing on boxes talking about their political theories (one wilder than the other, HINT look for a Karl Marx parody). -- - Vegard Valberg From: tomr@fred.net ( ) Newsgroups: alt.history.what-if Subject: Re: July 4---Insurrection Day Date: 2 Jul 1997 15:30:51 GMT Organization: FredNet - Frederick, Md. Vegard Valberg (vvalberg@sn.no) wrote: : Keith Morrison wrote: : : > Hmph. ID4 and TRSB are merely glorified rip-offs of that great show : > featuring the HMS Enterprise and Captain James Kirk, Earl of Iowa. : > : : Hey, how about Jean Luc Picard de Burgundy, Duke of Burgundy, : you know the guy in TNG. I know a lot of people don't like Star Trek TNG, : but I really like it (especially the alternate history episodes) I don't care... Sonny Bono *is* the Doctor! D*mn lobsterbacks! You *had* to _remake_ the show "in your own style". And *who* was the genius at FOX who cast Tony Blair as the 8th Doctor?!? -- TomR@Fred.Net http://www.fred.net/tomr "Bugger! 500 years in the future and we're *still* watching those bloody movies!" - Sid Servo, MST3K From: tomr@fred.net ( ) Newsgroups: alt.history.what-if Subject: Re: July 4---Insurrection Day Date: 2 Jul 1997 20:33:19 GMT Organization: FredNet - Frederick, Md. Vegard Valberg (vvalberg@sn.no) wrote: : Keith Morrison wrote: : : > Hmph. ID4 and TRSB are merely glorified rip-offs of that great show : > featuring the HMS Enterprise and Captain James Kirk, Earl of Iowa. : : Hey, how about Jean Luc Picard de Burgundy, Duke of Burgundy, : you know the guy in TNG. I know a lot of people don't like Star Trek TNG, : but I really like it (especially the alternate history episodes) Just as a tie-in: It's Official: Renee' O' Conner was on "The Late Show with Gilda Radner" last night and announced there WILL be a FIFTH Season of Babylon 5!!!! YIPPIE!!! Whether she finally does a sequel to her "Bard with a Glass Hand" is still specultive; she has two more books in her "Xena Scrolls" series due out before Worldcon in Dundalk. The UCA get them a month after the Mother Island sees them in 1998. There will be a live chat with the Great Maker herself, Jennifer Saunders, at 2200 GMT tomorrow. Oh and pick up a copy of the Radio Times. They FINALLY have a picture of Sheridan on the cover. *sigh* Melissa Gilbert never look soooooo good.... -- TomR@Fred.Net http://www.fred.net/tomr "Proud member of the Shrine of Jen" Date: Thu, 03 Jul 1997 07:11:19 -0600 From: scott_eiler@bdsi.com Subject: Re: July 4---Insurrection Day Newsgroups: alt.history.what-if In article <33BB0C27.F6F@nbnet.nb.ca>, lonewolf@nbnet.nb.ca wrote and quoted Vegard Valberg: > > Hey, how about Jean Luc Picard de Burgundy, Duke of Burgundy, > > you know the guy in TNG. I know a lot of people don't like Star Trek TNG, > > but I really like it (especially the alternate history episodes) Those episodes were too ridiculous for me. Once Q took the crew to a supposed alternate history where the Insurrection not only succeeded, it took over half the continent and became the most powerful nation on Earth. That much of the episode was okay (though a stretch). But the episode went downhill when the crew met the President of the Continental Congress, who was a "good old boy" real estate speculator from somewhere around Louisiana. And his wife actually ran the Presidential Palace. Come now, this is supposed to be the most powerful man on Earth? > Ah, the whole concept is unrealistic. I mean a *Frenchman* in charge > of one of His Majesty's ships? Even though the planet is supposed to > be united you know they just have no naval tradition. Well, that *would* explain why the ship always surrenders. B{D> From: seiler@ma.ultranet.com (Scott Eiler) Newsgroups: alt.history.what-if Subject: Re: July 4---Insurrection Day Date: Tue, 01 Jul 97 23:20:22 GMT Organization: SEILER (Software Engineering Integration Lab/Electronic Resources) In article <01bc864f$c5f5f420$9031e726@david.q2.net>, "David Braverman" wrote: >One wonders, however, how the continent would appear today if those bloody >rascals had succeeded in 1783. The rebellious, fighting nature of those men >might well have given us colonials the kick we needed to beat Spain back >from the West. Well, it would have helped if London hadn't maintained the treaties with the Indians, keeping the settlers east of the Appalachians until it was too late. By the time they were turned loose, Mexico had a lock on their Louisiana Purchase. >Who knows, perhaps the republics of Texas and California >might be part of the UCA today, instead of constant annoyances and >bastions of republicanism? Texas would have joined us, but London betrayed them with the Oregon Treaty, just to get the rights to Columbia. >Perhaps, while summering in Ciudad Miami de la Florida, >we would spend Sterling instead of Pesetas? Perhaps the Second American >Revolution could have been avoided, and we wouldn't have to send such >immense foreign aid to Georgia and Alabama? And perhaps there would be a >more favorable political climate east of the Iron Curtain that extends >from Trieste on the Adriatic to Boulogne on the Channel? Yes, the European Community's hostility to the United Empire is a fierce thing. Despite our past disagreements within the United Empire, we are still united. Only staunch loyalism to the Empire and its Economic Commonwealth is the solution to this, I say. >At least we got the French out of East Canada. And that's a good thing. The damned American rebels would surely have made common cause with Napoleon and his loyal Kebec militia in 1812 if the rebellion had succeeded in 1776. -------- Scott Eiler B{D> -------- From: "Andrew C. Schneider" Newsgroups: alt.history.what-if Subject: Re: July 4---Insurrection Day Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 12:35:33 -0400 Organization: Duke University, Durham, NC, USA On Mon, 30 Jun 1997, Marcus L. Rowland wrote: > > ID4 is all well and good, but I still think that the battle scenes in > Sir George Lucas's "The Rebellion Strikes Back" are much better. And if > you remember, Sir George had the rightful king piloting an x-wing, so > maybe that's where ID4 got the idea. > -- Frankly, I'm still waiting for a decent full-length treatment of the granddaddy of all space opera, "Flash Gordon". The special effects in those old serials may be as corny as all get out, but nothing beats the classic storyline of the football hero from Earth travelling to Mongo and aiding Ming the Magnanimous in his war against the forces of anarchy! That 1980 attempt was so lame, even Sir Chaim Topol as Gordon's mentor Professor Hans Disraeli couldn't save it. ========================================================================= Andrew C. Schneider "Success is that old ABC - U. Chicago, AB 6/93 (History) ability, breaks, and courage." Duke U., AM 12/95 (History) -Charles Luckman (516) 935-8511 ========================================================================= From: aspqrz@curie.dialix.oz.au (Phil McGregor) Newsgroups: alt.history.what-if Subject: Re: July 4---Insurrection Day Date: Fri, 04 Jul 1997 09:50:24 GMT Organization: DIALix Services, Sydney, Australia. On Wed, 02 Jul 1997 23:19:19 -0300, Keith Morrison wrote: >Vegard Valberg wrote: > >> Hey, how about Jean Luc Picard de Burgundy, Duke of Burgundy, >> you know the guy in TNG. I know a lot of people don't like Star Trek TNG, >> but I really like it (especially the alternate history episodes) > >Ah, the whole concept is unrealistic. I mean a *Frenchman* in charge >of one of His Majesty's ships? Even though the planet is supposed to >be united you know they just have no naval tradition. Well, er, they *do* have a naval tradition -- they design great ships that *we* englishpersons (need to be PC, y'know!) and colonials can take away from them and use *properly*. Probably no a quality you'd want, except in an engineer -- Engineer Commander Picard, perhaps? Phil Phil McGregor | aspqrz@curie.dialix.oz.au Have Game Designer, Will Travel Author, Rigger Black Book Co-auther, Space Opera From: Keith Morrison Newsgroups: alt.history.what-if Subject: Re: July 4---Insurrection Day Date: Sat, 05 Jul 1997 22:48:48 -0300 Organization: NBTel Internet Phil McGregor wrote: > >> Hey, how about Jean Luc Picard de Burgundy, Duke of Burgundy, > >> you know the guy in TNG. I know a lot of people don't like Star Trek TNG, > >> but I really like it (especially the alternate history episodes) `> > > >Ah, the whole concept is unrealistic. I mean a *Frenchman* in charge > >of one of His Majesty's ships? Even though the planet is supposed to > >be united you know they just have no naval tradition. > > Well, er, they *do* have a naval tradition -- they design great ships > that *we* englishpersons (need to be PC, y'know!) and colonials can > take away from them and use *properly*. > > Probably no a quality you'd want, except in an engineer -- Engineer > Commander Picard, perhaps? What?! You dare suggest tha' somewoon cae work the bairns better than a Scotsman! Curses on ye! Now Senior Ambassador in Chrage of Surrendering, that I can believe. -- Keith Morrison lonewolf@nbnet.nb.ca